Figuratively of course. Back when I first started driving, a 3/4 tonm gas truck got about 12 mpg and would last 100k-150k miles; a comparible diesel got around 18 mpg and would last 300k miles. For this the premium was around an additional $1500-2000 for the diesel engine option.

Today the gas trucks have improved with fuel injection and electronic ignition to where they are around 18 mpg and go 300k miles. The diesel still goes 300k miles (unless you get a lemon) and still gets 18 mpg, but cost an additional $6000-8000.

It would appear that someone has hijacked a good thing and screwed it up. Some claim it's the EPA, but they've been on the gassers back too and they seem to be making progress rather than excuses. I say the problem is with the hot rodders wanting to be able to brag about towing thier 35 foot fifth wheeler and not being able to tell it's back there (News flash - if you're towing a 35 foot fifth wheeler and can't tell it's back there then you have no business being behind the wheel). Let's get real people, when I was 21 I tested for my class A CDL on an 18 wheeler that had less HP than todays pickup's (1971 Mack, 237 hp) Have we lost sight of the big picture. I would much rather have a diesel truck that gets 25-30 mpg has 150 hp and cost $3000 over a gas truck than todays garbage out there.

For those that want to zip around doing 0-60 and 1/4 mile racing, may I suggest a sports car or motorcycle. It's not what a pickup truck was meant to do and it'd certainly not where a diesel engine earned it's workhorse reputation.  

Honestly, a lot of it has to do with the emissions after-treatment crap. That's definitely affected fuel economy on diesels.

Also, as you've noted, the gas trucks have gotten a lot better in terms of power and economy. I still think if you're towing or hauling, diesel's a better choice, and will probably still get you better mileage than a gasser hauling a load. But unloaded, the difference is getting negligible.

Honestly, for a lot of drivers, whether it's commercial, or just their private vehicle, it's going to come down to what they want to do with it, and if the price premium of diesel (both the engine option and the price of the fuel) is worth it.  

No question that in the past few years, it's been a power race with the Big 3 diesel trucks. Everyone wants the bragging rights for power.

But I think you're going to see the tables turning and increased demand for greater fuel efficiency. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see GM come out with an "Economax" version of the D-Max that gets really great mileage. Come to think of it, you can get a 250-hp version of it in the vans. I think the Duramax 4500 coming out in the half-tons in '10 will probably be a step back in that direction. Still powerful enough, but with more of an emphasis on economy than the 6.6.  

yea i understand everyones point. but i enjoy tinkering with my motors to gain the most out of them. fuel milage as well as performance. you have to admit when pulling with a truck that has plenty of power and "you dont feel it back there" so to speak. it is not as stressfull then pulling with a gasser for instance thats revved up to 5g's on the hills wondering if its gunna hold up. of course i know its back there its having the ability thats nice. less stress so you can listen to the wife and kids asking if we are there yet. just my $.02  

(Quote:KTS) For those that want to zip around doing 0-60 and 1/4 mile racing, may I suggest a sports car or motorcycle. It's not what a pickup truck was meant to do and it'd certainly not where a diesel engine earned it's workhorse reputation.  (end quote)

alot of the people who race or even pull with there trucks also use them for there daily truck. why would we want to go out and buy a sports car or motorcycle to race when we can save money on using one vehicle to do the same as what you would need 2 vehicles for. it is easier and cheaper to mod a diesel than to go out and buy another vehicle, then have to mog it.  

what is the deal with people coming on and posting 1 time and getting a discusions about something, then dont say anything else to try and prove there points.  

i dont like sportscars. i like fast trucks! slow trucks old trucks and want to drive a truck and can afford to so that is my preference and thanks to our men and woman who have served i can.  

A lot of good responses, thanks. I feel I'm not alone in feeling the pinch of high fuel prices and want to be able to lash out and blame someone. When I bought my truck in 2005 I thought I got a good deal, paid $27k on a $36k sticker. As fuel prices rose more and more I found my operating tolerance for using my truck getting increasingly narrow. Now I only use it when I absolutely have to haul or tow something. I commute with something else, mostly my motorcycle. I still see many people riding solo in thier trucks pulling and hauling nothing but air, but they are getting fewer and further between.

I like the idea of making and economy version of the duramax. Any feedback from the van guys on how the 250 hp version stacks up? If I could change the cam or retune it to get 25mpg that would be a good thing all around. Call me pessimistic, but I've never been good at getting something for nothing and all that performance seems to carry a hefty price.

About a year ago my wife was looking at new cars and I told her to take my truck for a trade, they offered $17k and she only had 40k miles. We didn't trade it and decided not to make a purchase until about three months ago when we were offered $12k (still didn't trade her, she had about 43k miles at the time) I am told that most dealers are not even taking them any more. I wish I could act all high and mighty and say that whatever it takes, I'm going to keep running her, but I'm not. I see them everyday lined up on the side of the road, "make offer" seems to be the general theme. I suspect many are upsidedown on the notes and thier back is against the wall. The new trucks don't seem to be doing much better, in which case $15k off MSRP is the theme.

So as one poster pointed out why not make it both good on performance and function as a truck and save on a second vehicle, well in at least my case making it good on performance and crappy on running cost has cost its function as a general utility vehicle that could be used from everything from hauling a load of firewood to dropping off a video. Now it's just something to be used a handful of times during the month and collects dust otherwise.

The good news is that with the little I use my truck anymore that she'll probably go another 30 years. Maybe I'll start brewing biodiesel by then and at least be able to afford to fill the tank.

Oh and BTW, I'm finding it a lot more fun commuting on my motorcycle, someone can dump all the money and gadgets they want into making thier diesel truck something it's not and that 37 mpg two wheeler will leave it in the dust every time.

78 F-250 400CID gas 12 mpg
80 F-250 300CID gas 15 mpg
87 F-250 6.9L diesel 18 mpg
01 Dodge 5.9L diesel 22 mpg
05 GMC 6.6L diesel 18mpg  

There's an old Spanish proverb that says, "Take what you want, and pay." I think that's very apt in these times we're living in. Hey, if you want to have a 7,500 lb. truck that does a 10-second quarter mile, more power to ya, but I can only feel so sorry for you if you whine about high fuel prices. That's the trade-off.

My guess is that the GM vans will ultimately drop the 6.6 de-tuned Dmax for the 4.5, which produces more power, probably gets better economy, and won't need the Allison behind it.

I could even see GM offering the 4.5 as the "base" diesel in the 2500 trucks as sort of an economy/workhorse package.  

Or they could say that truck sales are off. Decide to consolidate, and drop the diesel line all together.  

I understand where your coming from trust me. That's why I'm looking to sell my ford for a gasser think I'm gona get a new Silverado with the flex fuel that deactivates cylinders so that when your crusin slow it runs on 4 1/2 throttle 6  and if you pin it 8. I got a buddy with a 07 Tahoe he pulls the jet skis down to Lake Havasu gets excellent fuel economy and I pull the boat. I've ridden with him a few times while I wouldn't buy an SUV but I like the idea of a 327 that gets 30 to 40 mpg if u drive it like a grand pa and use E85 which is cheaper than unleaded where I'm at. I used to love the fact the diesels were economical and you could pull some big power numbers from them but with fuel prices sky high only thing left to do is sell and go back to the gassers until someone straightens out this fuel mess.

On another note I hope they don't cut back the performance figures on these trucks. I understand if they have a budget model engine for folks to buy that is kind to your pocket and the environment and saves baby seals. But I want the huge massive beast of burden that's fast and powerful. Something that's fueled on baby rabbits and spotted owls. That can tow as well as the budget diesel but can also smoke a ricer all day long. I understand it'll only get 12 to 13 mpg but that's ok. That's why you look for a economical gasser or bike as a daily driver.  

KTS:
Or they could say that truck sales are off. Decide to consolidate, and drop the diesel line all together.

Highly unlikely. Despite the price-per-gallon difference relative to unleaded, there are still some compelling reasons to choose a diesel over a gas engine, especially in trucks. Towing/hauling capability and long-term durability being a few.

However, the price of fuel, plus the price of the diesel engine option combined are making a lot of fleet buyers re-think the diesel vs. gas equation.

I think once some of the refineries are re-tooled to optimize diesel production, you may see diesel prices go down significantly, possibly even below unleaded, though that might be a stretch.  

"Something that's fueled on baby rabbits and spotted owls". You made me laugh, thanks.  

Yeah, even with fuel prices what they are, I don't think you're going to see the diesel power race ending anytime soon. Let's face it, bragging rights matter, especially in the truck market. Of course, the OEs might be bragging a little more lately about economy than outright power, but if they can figure out how to get both, then they will.

The new Hemi Ram cranks out 390 horse, but gets even better fuel economy than its predecessor. I think the emphasis will shift a little more toward economy, but if the engineers can squeeze out a few more ponies in the bargain, why not?  

HeHe anytime me and the enviro"mental"ist dont get along to well but I figure if im forkin out 50K for a truck along with mods and diesel prices it better scream. Honestly if diesel prices go back down and the new 4.5 is quick like its big brother ill steer clear of the gassers.