hey smokestorm why would whoever you were talking about take the motor OUT of a dodge and put it IN a ford? cause everything else in the dodge is *** why wouldent he just keep the motor in the dodge and run the dodge instead of taking it all out and running the ford? hmm i guess i dont know about that one? you tell me. only one reason what is it?  

You want one reason, the 6.0 is weak not the Cummins and I'am proud to say I have an I6 because the extra 2 pistons in the Powerstroke obviously isn't doing anything because they have been number three in the torque wars for a while.  

whats with all the I6 bashing. you should remeber that your v8 diesel was hauled to the dealer by a I6. the reason for inline 6's is because a I6 is naturally balanced, a  longer stroke( yea thats right powerstroke lovers the cummins has a longer stroke   they're the ones strokin ) and the low-end torque is obvious. ever check out the torque specs on the new 6.4 ? if memory serves me correct peak torque is at 2000 rpm which is the highest of all three makers. and if chevy/isuzu would learn to put cast iron heads on the duramax and get away from aluminum then they would have a decent motor  all too common do i see chiped duramax's with warped heads. o yea another thing you guys hate I6's soooo much and say v8's are better then why do you see i6's in semis ? yea sure there were those v8 cat motors but they were hunks of junk and sucked to work on the point is I6 is the best configuration for a diesel period. and forget about those stupid names for the engines like cummapart .... pfft thats the dumbest name ive ever heard hate to see what you name your kids. last time i checked our shop truck (96 dodge ram 2500 2wd 12V cummins) had 488,000 miles on the speedo and only thing thats ever been done to it was oil changes and new trailer wiring and shes still kicking . show me a powerstroke or duramax that will last that long  

get off the Duramax bashing 02 cummins the duramax has not been around long enough to know how long they will run but I have seen them with well over 300,000 on the ticker last time I checked our shop truck 96 ram with the cummins was put out to pasture with only 255,000 miles on it it was a tranny blowin gutless terd  

02CUMMINS:
whats with all the I6 bashing. you should remeber that your v8 diesel was hauled to the dealer by a I6. the reason for inline 6's is because a I6 is naturally balanced, a  longer stroke( yea thats right powerstroke lovers the cummins has a longer stroke   they're the ones strokin ) and the low-end torque is obvious. ever check out the torque specs on the new 6.4 ? if memory serves me correct peak torque is at 2000 rpm which is the highest of all three makers. and if chevy/isuzu would learn to put cast iron heads on the duramax and get away from aluminum then they would have a decent motor  all too common do i see chiped duramax's with warped heads. o yea another thing you guys hate I6's soooo much and say v8's are better then why do you see i6's in semis ? yea sure there were those v8 cat motors but they were hunks of junk and sucked to work on the point is I6 is the best configuration for a diesel period. and forget about those stupid names for the engines like cummapart .... pfft thats the dumbest name ive ever heard hate to see what you name your kids. last time i checked our shop truck (96 dodge ram 2500 2wd 12V cummins) had 488,000 miles on the speedo and only thing thats ever been done to it was oil changes and new trailer wiring and shes still kicking . show me a powerstroke or duramax that will last that long

Amen brother!!!!!!!   The I6 runs, last longer, and sounds better than any V8!!!!!!!!!!!!  

i dont get why people seem to think there is a place for aluminum in a diesel ? there isnt the sooner people figure that out they will be better off  

Maybe, just maybe the Ford motor blew up and this guy wanted somethig a bit stronger, then again maybe he felt he could get more HP out of the Cummins or he just loves the Cummins as much as he loves the Ford and built the truck Ford should have, in the first place.  

hey smokestorm why would whoever you were talking about take the motor OUT of a dodge and put it IN a ford? cause everything else in the dodge is *** why wouldent he just keep the motor in the dodge and run the dodge instead of taking it all out and running the ford? hmm i guess i dont know about that one? you tell me. only one reason what is it?  

Guess you're right. A truck is only as good as the motor that is in it. The Ford got good eh? Even better when it is making 900+ HP. I'm a big Dodge fan, but, I do like the looks of an older Ford. They did have a good engine (7.3L) but, look what there is now.  

look what there is now what is wrong with it.? the 6.0 might not last as long as the cumminaparts do but for the amount of time they do last when they do burn up at 200000 it is time for a new pickup anyway. yes the 7.3 is a higher millage motor then the 6.0 but it wont even touch it in a drag race with a trailer of any weight. i had a 2000 before this one and i loved it but i like this one more even though i know it aint gonna last as long. my 2000 had 267000 miles on it when i sold it for $10000. it still ran fine i just wanted more power so i baught it.  

It is funny that you keep talking that you know your 6.0 wont last as long as the Cummins but you keep referring to the Cummins as the Cumminapart and don't you think it would be a lot easier to sell a truck that has a lot more life in it at 200,000 like another 150,000 more before it even needs a look over, I may be crazy but I think it would. THE 6.0 IS THE TRUE CUMMAPART! Hince the lawsuit against Navistar.  

heres what ford a navistar should do .... drop the DT466E with 300 HP in their 3/4 tons and up and then they have a truck. remember in the truck world horsepower means nothing its all about torque  

Here is an artical from The Center For Auto Safety.
Power Stroke woes anger buyers, drive up warranty costs

By Richard Truett
Automotive News / December 12, 2005

James and Penny Schrader have bought Fords faithfully for 30 years.

But persistent problems with the Power Stroke diesel engine in their 2004 F-250 pickup have unraveled three decades of brand loyalty. The Schraders, both 63, put a second mortgage on their home in Linden, Mich., to buy the $45,000 truck. Now they say they'll probably never buy another Ford.

"My husband wouldn't look at anything else," says Penny Schrader of their pickup. "But I don't care how good their product was in the past. They haven't treated me well as a loyal customer."

The Schraders aren't alone. Ford Motor Co. has been sued at least 58 times by consumers who bought 2003- and 2004-model Power Stroke trucks. The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data.

Not a minor flaw

This isn't a minor flaw that Ford can dispatch with basic service. The Power Stroke's warranty repair costs are battering Ford's bottom line. In a conference call with Wall Street analysts last March, a company executive acknowledged that Ford's diesel-powered super-duty pickups suffered from quality problems.

Ford has declined to estimate the cost of fixing those defective Power Stroke engines. But Ford has acknowledged that its warranty costs ballooned by $500 million through the first nine months of 2005, compared with the same period a year earlier.

Ford says it is honoring the engine's five-year, 100,000-mile warranty and doing everything it can to repair it. And newer versions of the engine in late 2004- and 2005-model pickups are more reliable.

But the problem will continue to fester. Ford already has sold more than 384,000 diesel trucks with potentially defective engines. And customers like the Schraders appear ready to abandon the brand.

Fixing its diesel problems - in terms of both engine performance and public confidence - is crucial for Ford because the stakes are enormous: Diesels account for about 25 percent of all F-series sales, and the 6.0-liter Power Stroke is a $5,000 option. The engine is offered on medium- and heavy-duty pickups, and had been offered on the discontinued Ford Excursion SUV.

From 225,000 to 250,000 diesel-powered F-series trucks are sold each year, at prices ranging from $30,000 to $50,000-plus.

If Ford can't put things right, the Power Stroke could cause a consumer backlash similar to that of Chrysler's problem-plagued Ultradrive transmission, which alienated minivan owners in the early 1990s.

"If this isn't fixed, and fixed right, and customer satisfaction put back on track, there will be fallout," says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Ford will lose buyers to Dodge and General Motors."

Trouble from the start

The 6.0-liter Power Stroke engine has been troublesome from the day it was launched in the fall of 2002. It replaced a somewhat unrefined 7.3-liter diesel.

The powertrain was built by a longtime Ford diesel supplier, International Truck and Engine Corp., of Melrose Park, Ill.

For this version of the engine, International Truck designed a unique high-pressure fuel-injection system.

Most automakers use only electronic controls to operate the fuel injectors in a common-rail system. But the Power Stroke's fuel injectors are operated by a high-pressure oil pump as well as electronics.

According to several of the 150-plus complaints posted on the Web site of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, some trucks never even made it home from the dealership before the fuel injectors or turbocharger failed.

The engine also has been plagued with leaky fuel injectors, oil leaks, broken turbochargers, wiring harness troubles, faulty sensors, defective exhaust gas recirculation valves and bad computers.

Since the engine debuted three years ago, Ford has issued at least 77 technical service bulletins. That is far above average, even for a new engine. These bulletins tell mechanics how to diagnose and fix various problems.

By comparison, there have been eight service bulletins for GM's Duramax diesel V-8 and none for the diesel engine in the Dodge Ram truck. Both engines debuted at about the same time as the Power Stroke.

After just a year on the market, International almost completely redesigned the Power Stroke's fuel system, replacing or redesigning nearly 500 parts. That helped reduce the number of problems, but did not cure the engine of all its ills. Ford has voluntarily recalled the engine at least twice to fix various problems.

The troubles have caused a rift in relations between Ford and International.

The engine can be repaired and made reliable, says International spokesman Bob Carso. Engineers from Ford and International have fixed the problems that plagued the early versions of the engine, he said.

But Carso says the engine is extremely complex and requires "outstanding diagnostic capabilities" to properly identify and repair the faulty parts.

Less help from Ford?

When the Power Stroke's troubles surfaced, Ford tried hard to keep customers happy. In the summer of 2003, Ford took the unusual step of buying back 500 trucks, mostly because of fuel system problems.

But two diesel technicians say Ford has changed the way it deals with the engine problems.

"When they first started out with the 6.0-liter, Ford had a team that was looking over every bit of it and just doing whatever it took to get them fixed," says Mark Ward, a master diesel technician at Landers McLarty Ford in Bentonville, Ark. "And then that just shut off like a light when Ford found out how much losses they were having."

Ward contends Ford is trying to shift more repair costs onto consumers.

"We used to replace turbochargers left and right if the fins had any damage to them," he says. "Now they (Ford) won't accept a turbo back with any fin damage. They are saying if there is any (turbocharger) fin damage whatsoever, it has to be from a dirty air filter. You have to inform the customer that Ford won't pay for that. It's $700, plus the labor."

The fin is the part of the turbocharger that is driven by engine's exhaust system.

"When the 6.0 is running properly, it has much better performance than the 7.3 did," says Charles Ledger, a Ford master technician from Oroville, Calif. "Unfortunately, the 6.0 is plagued with sensor problems." Ledger dispenses advice on his Dieselmann Web site (intellidog.com/dieselmann/home.html).

Ford: No change in policy

Cisco Codina, president of Ford's customer service division, says Ford is not blaming consumers or trying to shift repair costs onto buyers.

"We have not changed any policies whatsoever as it relates to defective material," Codina says. "We don't try to put this blame on the customers. We will spend whatever amount of time and money necessary to help customers who have problems."

Not all of the Power Stroke's defects can be blamed on Ford and International. Consumers may cause problems by installing unauthorized parts that boost engine output. Aftermarket computer chips and exhaust systems can upset the delicate tuning of the engine and cause head gaskets to blow out, Ward says.

Last year Ford and International officials told Automotive News that the Power Stroke's troubles were over. But that turns out to be only partially true.

The engines made today have a better record for reliability, according to NHTSA (see story, above). But those 2003- and early 2004-model engines keep breaking down. And consumers are angry at having to return to the dealership time after time for "reflashes" - new software to be installed in the vehicle's engine computer or other repairs.

Getting better

The number of complaints for 2005 Power Stroke engines has dropped sharply compared with earlier versions since last year's redesign of the engine's fuel system.

But there still are thousands on the road that are not reliable - and may never be. Design deficiencies in some faulty parts, Ward says, have not been addressed.

"If you look at the part number at the new one you are putting on, it's identical to the one you are taking out," notes Ward, the Arkansas technician. "If you start out with something cheap, what do you expect to happen?"

Ward details the engine's troubles and Ford's technical service bulletins on his Web site, flatratetech.com.

The Power Stroke's troubles are reminiscent of Chrysler Corp.'s A-604 automatic transmission - dubbed Ultradrive - that was introduced in Chrysler minivans in 1989. The first versions of the electronically shifted transmission had more problems than a calculus book. Technicians couldn't fix them, consumers were fuming, and Chrysler ended up replacing thousands of transmissions under warranty.

But Codina says Power Stroke has generated more complaints than rival diesels simply because more diesel Fords are on the road.

Says Codina: "We try to address each and every (problem) as we became aware of them. I am sure I am not aware of all of them. But if they (consumers) come to us, we try to do our very best. But today if you have one or two problems, people are not very happy with you."

One more chance

As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model.

After consulting with a lawyer, the Schraders took the deal. The couple left Michigan a few days later for a road trip West. But they are still angry with Ford because they had to spend a year trying to get their truck fixed.

And they will not cut the new truck any slack. If the new truck so much as sputters, James Schrader says he will pull into the nearest Dodge dealership and trade it for a Ram.  

excellent article. at the international shop i work at i have had to reman 6 vt365 turbo's its just insane. the quality is just horrible  

You area typical Cummins junkie that don't know *** about the Duramax motor.  I have never seen or heard of a single warped head on a Dmax.  Warped heads on a Dodge are much more common.  You can run 50psi of boost on a Dmax all day long without headstuds or headgasket issues.  They have the best designed heads on the market, period.  

o rly ? tell that to TCW railroad, or caterpillar for that matter since their chevy pickups have the duramax in them. lets see aluminum heads vs. cast iron ? hmmm i wonder which one i should take. i dont have to answer. btw if youve never seen a duramax *** itself then go to a truck pull pretty amusing actually watch those ricer diesels crap themselves