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Buy a 12v or 24v?

  
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Buy a 12v or 24v?

 
gt_hatchback gt_hatchback
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/13/08
12:22 AM

hey guys i'm not an owner yet but I'm going to get a cummins here in the next couple months...my price range is $10,000 maybe $11,000...I dont know alot but I know the basics...I'm pretty set on getting a cummins but I need to know which is better the 12v or 24v?? I've been told to stay away from the 24v if I can because of the pump...and the #53 block...but thats it...I havent heard anything bad about 12v's. Other than they arent electronic pumps...so just some insight on what is the best and what you guys prefer would be appreciated....thanks!  

Kazairl Kazairl
User | Posts: 83 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/14/08
02:01 PM

Well it depends..

 A 12 Valve does have a mechanical pump. The P7100 is cheaper to tweak for horse power. You can grind your own fuel plate and set the AFC yourself. A 24v you will have to buy a chip to tweak it. More money yes, but the advantage is you can change power settings on the fly and go from mild to wild with the turn of a knob. As for power output, for drivable power it really doesn't make much of a difference. The big HP boys usually go for the 12v because the pumps can be made to flow more fuel. However there is at least one 24v that I know of that has made over 1000hp with no drugs so its a wash.

As for reliability, with a 24v a fuel pressure gauge of a dummy light is MANDATORY. These trucks were/are notorious for weak fuel transfer pumps which if one fails and the problem is not taken care of quickly it will take out the injection pump. However with a good fuel transfer pump (like a FASS,Airdog,Walbro,Airtex,whatever)and good pressure they usually do just as good as a p7100 thats in the 12v.

 Some other issues with the 24v are APPS sensors which is a $400 sensor which also likes to fail. However a fix for under $200 has been found for that problem. In general 24v has more electronics and sensors that could possibly fail. The #53 block problem only applied to some early 99-00 model trucks. Since it says right on the block if its a 53 or not this problem is easy to avoid.

 Some common problems with the 12v are the KDP, Fuel Shutoff solenoid and starter contacts(I've only heard of 12v's welding them together maybe 24vs do it too?)

The Killer Dowel Pin was covered in a DP issue a while ago. Don't remember the issue though. The Fuel solenoid causes a problem where the truck will crank but won't start unless you manually move the solenoid.(or tie it up like my Dad did on his 97)

 It will probably be hard to find a 24v for 10K so you'll probably be looking at a 12v. Keep in mind too that any 12v you buy will be in a truck that is at least 10 years old so you'll probably have to deal with typical older truck issues.  
02 Dodge 2500 QC LB NV5600 4.10 D60+D80 285/75R16 Wild Country AT 16x? Eagle Alloy wheels Quad Adrenaline, Edge Jammer 3, Afe Stage 1, Afe 4" Straight pipe, Autometer Cobalt gauges.

dukeboy_318 dukeboy_318
Guru | Posts: 897 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 08/14/08
02:15 PM

I agree with most of the above, however, the 24s just have a weak lift pump that may fail, thats easy to fix.  If you want a stock truck, go with a 12 v, if you want to put a chip or programer on it, go with a 24v, that way you can fully adjust the fueling while driving, also if you know how to drive a stick, id get one with a 5 spd. the autos backing the 12vs sucked worse then the auto that backed the 24v  
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins 24 valve, 5spd with south bend 550hp+ clutch, 150 horse injectors, Fram Boost intake(for now), Edge Juice with attitude, 150 gph fass fuel pump and much more, all together 450 dyno proven HP and 1170 ft lbs.
DPMAG May Ride of the Month

and a quote from Dmax007-  this site is entirely the blind leading the blind. nobody on this site has the balls to stand up to this stupid blowin smoke gang. got news for you, i do.  

Recruiter/member of the Blowing Smoke Gang!

dukeboy_318 dukeboy_318
Guru | Posts: 897 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 08/14/08
02:16 PM

try autortrader, they have several 24vs for under 10k btw  
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins 24 valve, 5spd with south bend 550hp+ clutch, 150 horse injectors, Fram Boost intake(for now), Edge Juice with attitude, 150 gph fass fuel pump and much more, all together 450 dyno proven HP and 1170 ft lbs.
DPMAG May Ride of the Month

and a quote from Dmax007-  this site is entirely the blind leading the blind. nobody on this site has the balls to stand up to this stupid blowin smoke gang. got news for you, i do.  

Recruiter/member of the Blowing Smoke Gang!

gt_hatchback gt_hatchback
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/14/08
08:04 PM

If you dont mind answering..what kind of older diesel truck issues are you talking about?  

gt_hatchback gt_hatchback
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/14/08
08:09 PM

yeah I've noticed there are just as many 24's around me than there are 12's..quick question.. if I get a 24v am I guaranteed to have problems with the pump?? stock no mods...or do they only have problems with a chip??  

Kazairl Kazairl
User | Posts: 83 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 08/15/08
07:47 AM

I'm a 6-speed guy myself but those are only in the 01-02 24v. My dads 97 has the 5-speed in it and its a nice tranny. Other than the fifth gear problem it hasn't acted up for 250k.

 Thanks for clearing up the prices Duke. I really haven't looked at them much since I bought mine.

 By older truck issues I mean stuff just wearing out. Or suffering the abuse of its past owner. Things like small dents, ripped seats, stained carpet, whatever. In a truck that has been used for a while its bound to have little things like that.
 Depending on mileage it might have different issues like suspension and steering components getting worn and things like that. Things that don't really pertain to diesel trucks specifically but just to older trucks in general.
 Except for the issues listed in the above posts the engine shouldn't have too many issues.
 As for the 24v, It's a given that you'll have problems with the lift pump sooner or later. Hence the need for a Fuel pressure gauge.
 However the Injection pump is a different story. The reason why these pumps fail is not 100% clear. The general theory is that that the lift pump goes out then the IP has to pull its fuel through the nonoperating lift pump, which it will do, but it wasn't designed to do that.
  The other accepted theory is that running your truck to near empty on a regular basis is also part of the cause. The VP44 is cooled and lubricated by diesel fuel. After the engine has run a while the fuel gets hot because it is constantly circulating. When the tank has a lot of fuel in it the fuel sits for long enough in the tank that it gives off most of that heat. However when people run their tanks low the fuel doesn't sit in the tank long enough to give off its heat and doesn't cool the VP44 like it should. It is believed that the hot fuel cause the plungers to swell and wear against the barrels.

 I fill up when my tank is at 1/4 and thats usually considered acceptable.( I'm only at 107k but no failures so far!) but I think that is a rule you should follow on EVERY vehicle and not just the 24v. I lost 2 fuel pumps on a chevy tahoe because i regularly pulled it down to near empty. I started filling at 1/4 and never had it fail again.

 So Lift pump.. yeah its probably going to fail. They aren't that expensive though. VP44.. with good fuel pressure and refill at the 1/4 mark they should last a long time.  
02 Dodge 2500 QC LB NV5600 4.10 D60+D80 285/75R16 Wild Country AT 16x? Eagle Alloy wheels Quad Adrenaline, Edge Jammer 3, Afe Stage 1, Afe 4" Straight pipe, Autometer Cobalt gauges.

dukeboy_318 dukeboy_318
Guru | Posts: 897 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 08/16/08
07:25 AM

Youll probably have a lift pump failure, but thats a cheap fix, get a fuel pressure light or gauge and a FASS or Airdog lift pump, youll be fine.  the injection pump survives on fuel flow, my 99 24 valve has 230k on it, the orginal injection pump, and im making over 500 dyo proven HP and Ive been running that much power for over 110k miles, no issues.  
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins 24 valve, 5spd with south bend 550hp+ clutch, 150 horse injectors, Fram Boost intake(for now), Edge Juice with attitude, 150 gph fass fuel pump and much more, all together 450 dyno proven HP and 1170 ft lbs.
DPMAG May Ride of the Month

and a quote from Dmax007-  this site is entirely the blind leading the blind. nobody on this site has the balls to stand up to this stupid blowin smoke gang. got news for you, i do.  

Recruiter/member of the Blowing Smoke Gang!

dukeboy_318 dukeboy_318
Guru | Posts: 897 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 08/16/08
07:26 AM

thats running a chip and huge injectors btw  
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins 24 valve, 5spd with south bend 550hp+ clutch, 150 horse injectors, Fram Boost intake(for now), Edge Juice with attitude, 150 gph fass fuel pump and much more, all together 450 dyno proven HP and 1170 ft lbs.
DPMAG May Ride of the Month

and a quote from Dmax007-  this site is entirely the blind leading the blind. nobody on this site has the balls to stand up to this stupid blowin smoke gang. got news for you, i do.  

Recruiter/member of the Blowing Smoke Gang!

Jmckinney Jmckinney
New User | Posts: 4 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/18/08
07:08 PM

If you are looking for a Cummins both 12v and 24v have pros and cons.  I have both a 12v and 24v.  You just need to find a truck that you like.  I have not had any problems motor wise with the 12v and i have 300,000+ miles on it.  On the other hand the body is showing its age.  Now on my 24v i have had some problems.  My lift pump, injector pump, and i had to replace my injectors.  This was all due to the piece of junk lift pump.  Even thou all that went wrong and right at 4000 dollars later i still prefer the 24v over the 12v, but the engines are both great no complaints.  If you do go with the 24v u should for sure either get a fuel pressure gauge or low fuel pressure led light.  And if you are to due mods you should think about a different fuel system.  I went with the 95GPH Fass system.  Fass and PDR claims that it is good for 600hp.  

My 24v is a 99 2wd Automatic.  I have hot rod VP44 pump, 100hp injectors, Fass Fuel System, Duablo Sport power puck, K&N Air intake, 4in exaust, upgraded tran. from dunrite, and more.  Never ran on a dino so i don't  have a clue what kind of HP I am at.

On the other had my brother has a 12v that is one bad dude as well.

My advise is to find a truck that works for you.  Both engines have no limits.  They are both tuff machines.  

Dieselguy89 Dieselguy89
New User | Posts: 14 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 08/28/08
01:15 PM

hAS aNY BODY EVER SEEN A 24V WITH A P-PUMP ON IT  

94-12valve 94-12valve
New User | Posts: 42 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/22/08
07:01 AM

If your stuck between a 12 and a 24 think about what you will have to do to make it put out the horses and tq u want it 2. W/ a 24 sure you have chips and programmers and an all together newer truck, but if you like WORKIN to make you truck bad ass and not just pluggin it in to a box then go 4 a 12. They say that a P-pump is the holly 4bbl of the diesel world and i dont know about you guys but i like a mechanicly workin engine. 24 valves are nice 2 but 4 10grand a 12 valve is a long lasting pretty mutch worry free strong running engine.  

XL75 XL75
New User | Posts: 13 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 09/22/08
03:24 PM

Got my first diesel truck last year and I love it. Talked to owners and mechanics, one mechanic in particulair who I went to school with since grade 1 (1973) said get a twelve valve. I thought no way in hell I am going to buy a 10 year old diesel. After weighing his advice , this guy grew up in his dads garage and now works for the DOT as a diesel mechanic. I bought a 97 with 155,00 miles. This truck alawys gets 22-23 MPG if driven moderately. As for the KDP it's Diesel Power, Volume 3 NO. 8 June 07 page 160. Some NV4500 transmissions have had a problem with 5th gear. Disel Tech magazine Volume 2 Issue 3 Page 26 has an excellent article on the fix. Best of luck with a very tough decision.  
97 twelve valve,3.55 gears 2wd 5spd, S&B cold air, banks twin ram, 4" turbo back exhaust, flex a lite electric fan,ATS exhaust manifold, 50 HP DDP injectors, 15.5 degrees on the timing and #8 fuel plate

RuffRider RuffRider
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/22/08
05:43 PM

Got a 1996 3/4 4X4 long box 5spd I am selling ... good looking truck.. body good .. drivers seat needs redone Laugh ... needs front engine crank seal and 4 shocks .. tires are 60%?? or so... have a bunch of pics if you are interested.. got the good pump and good tranny .. 3.50 gears etc .. anyone interested can leave a post if you want my email  ... dont know if you can post pix here .. just found site while looking for info to rebuild my 97 dually 4x2  .. Thanks .. Joe  

RuffRider RuffRider
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/22/08
05:46 PM

guess I should let you all know the truck is in Saskatchewan, Can .. just north of Regina  

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