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Questions about lift pumps?  
Ned1999
New User | Posts: 15 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/28/08
09:00 AM

I just bought a 1999 ram 2500 5.9L. its had a vary easy life and has lots of new parts, but is stock other then the k&n air filter. it has just over 200,000 km on it. i have been reading that the stock lift pumps are failing and taking out the vp44's with them. the truck is running great now. but i thought i should replace it anyway. is it worth it for me to go with a fass lift pump or just a hpfp pump witch is a bit cheeper. and should i get a 95 gph or 150 gph. Thanks a lot for your help and advice.  


1999 Ram 2500 pretty much stock, big plans soon though.

 
jms_shepherd
User | Posts: 235 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 09/28/08
11:36 AM

I just depends on what your goals are with the truck.  If you're just gonna use it for towing and mild driving, do the 90gph.  But if you're wanting it to run like a sport car then I would go with the 150gph or for the extreme 250gph.  

I personally like the airdog, check those out buddy.  They are 200$ cheaper are better quality and are backed by a lifetime warranty.  Check them out and see what you think, I think you'll be happy. Also before you go buying stuff, PM me and I will give you a number to this guy that sells pretty much anything and everything out there for cummins.  He will be the cheapest out there guaranteed.  


5.9 2007 Cummins. 250shot nitrous (3 stage system) Wastegated 5000 with PDI manifold, Snow Water meth, Pro Sportsman Valve Spring, Banks Intercooler with tubing, Banks Elbow, Smarty TNT-R, F1 150hp Flux injectors, Floor It Diesels Stage III Modified CP3 AirDog 150/150, 5 inch exhaust, S&B intake, Goerend Input Output Shafts and clutches, BD Flex plate, Converter and Valve Body.  4 1/2 inch Fabtec Lift with 33" tires dressed with DC1 Dick Cepek 20" rims
674.05HP #2 only

 
2001.SCOTT
Enthusiast | Posts: 452 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 09/28/08
04:36 PM

the extrem 250 is to much for your truck if you look up there 95 should be more than enough for a good tuner mild injector and a turbo putting the extra fuel will just shorten the life of the injector pump and the pump itself i'm still running the intake pump on mine but thinking of going with a 95 myself  


2001 dodge with 5in exhaust k@n intake with edge comp box,2in leveling, added holley blue lift pump kit member-"Blowing Smoke Gang" Ranchhand bumbers

 
jms_shepherd
User | Posts: 235 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 09/28/08
05:25 PM

I know if you read my post right.  I said that if you wanted it to RUN LIKE A SPORT CAR you would want a 150/150 but for THE EXTREME you would want a 250.  Never told him to go with that specific one so I have no idea where that came from.  If you are gonna stay there with just mild injectors and a chip, a 95 will be enough.  If you stack it and run 100+ injectors, then you need to 150/150 or so. Thanks  


5.9 2007 Cummins. 250shot nitrous (3 stage system) Wastegated 5000 with PDI manifold, Snow Water meth, Pro Sportsman Valve Spring, Banks Intercooler with tubing, Banks Elbow, Smarty TNT-R, F1 150hp Flux injectors, Floor It Diesels Stage III Modified CP3 AirDog 150/150, 5 inch exhaust, S&B intake, Goerend Input Output Shafts and clutches, BD Flex plate, Converter and Valve Body.  4 1/2 inch Fabtec Lift with 33" tires dressed with DC1 Dick Cepek 20" rims
674.05HP #2 only

 
Ned1999
New User | Posts: 15 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 09/29/08
02:01 PM

thanks that helps for shoure. and yah i don't need it to be like a sports car. just doing some towing and shutteling our bikes up and down mountains and just enjoying cause i love that truck. and ill get in touch with u for that #. i was reading about air dog but couldn't find any on line. and am not home so don't know any dealers here on the east cost of canada.  


1999 Ram 2500 pretty much stock, big plans soon though.

 
BCRAM
Enthusiast | Posts: 536 | Joined: 11/06
Posted: 09/29/08
09:59 PM

The first thing you need is a fuel pressure gauge this way you know what your pump is doing. My truck ran great with the stock pump...but the gauge showed low psi under load and even after I replaced the OEM pump with a FASS the 44 packed it in a few months later anyway.  


2002 Dodge Ram 6 SPD Fass pump, afe cold air, mbrp 4" ss exhaust, 275hp RV injectors, edge ez, isspro gauges, South Bend clutch, track bar updated to 03-07 style, dss steering stabilizer system, 285 Cooper Discover

 
jms_shepherd
User | Posts: 235 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 09/30/08
03:14 PM

Yeah this is true BC I had the same problem with CP3.  I was running stacked chips and whatnot so I put an AirDog150/150 and I could still fill myself loosing pressure at WOT at 80mph or so.  So I got it checked out, my rail pressure alone was dropping 1/3 or so.  So I replaced my pump and sense then she runs like a champ.  


5.9 2007 Cummins. 250shot nitrous (3 stage system) Wastegated 5000 with PDI manifold, Snow Water meth, Pro Sportsman Valve Spring, Banks Intercooler with tubing, Banks Elbow, Smarty TNT-R, F1 150hp Flux injectors, Floor It Diesels Stage III Modified CP3 AirDog 150/150, 5 inch exhaust, S&B intake, Goerend Input Output Shafts and clutches, BD Flex plate, Converter and Valve Body.  4 1/2 inch Fabtec Lift with 33" tires dressed with DC1 Dick Cepek 20" rims
674.05HP #2 only

 
Ned1999
New User | Posts: 15 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 10/01/08
10:00 AM

ok yah maybe i will get a gauge before i got spending a lot on a pump. The truck feels like it is running great now. so that is a good idea.  


1999 Ram 2500 pretty much stock, big plans soon though.

 
2001.SCOTT
Enthusiast | Posts: 452 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 10/01/08
10:57 AM

you can get by with a manual guage and a taped banjo bolt to the factory fuel filter what i did was go from the tapped banjo bolt to a 1/4 in fuel line to my manual guage inside the cab not much to it. I see someones point of fuel inside the cab but diesel fuel doesnt blow up and its much harder to catch fire than gasoline i could not see paying nearly 200 dollars for what they sell to just know what my fuel pressure is. Just make sure all your connections are tight and have no leaks it'll work fine my does.  


2001 dodge with 5in exhaust k@n intake with edge comp box,2in leveling, added holley blue lift pump kit member-"Blowing Smoke Gang" Ranchhand bumbers

 
2001.SCOTT
Enthusiast | Posts: 452 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 10/01/08
11:02 AM

oh by the way your factory will most likely only hold about 7 psi at low rpms a good power box will make it drop to 0 on the trottle even if it is new. I put a new one on my dodge couldnt want 2 weeks for the fass or airdog to get here now i wish i would have. Got to go though all the same crap again now for a good aftermarket one cheapest place i have found is Triple D Perfomance.com its 426.00 for the fass 95 or 150 your chioce which one you go with.  


2001 dodge with 5in exhaust k@n intake with edge comp box,2in leveling, added holley blue lift pump kit member-"Blowing Smoke Gang" Ranchhand bumbers

 
MarineOne MarineOne
User | Posts: 170 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 10/02/08
12:05 PM

Think of it more as preventive maintenance.  A few hundred bucks now versus a few thousand later.

Everyone knows Dodge has issues with the lift pump (LP) going out and taking everything from an injector to, in some cases, an entire engine with it.  Gassers have to run lean, but diesels need a specific amount of fuel.  Run one lean and it'll get hotter than a tin roof in the desert sun.

Personally I would go with a FASS system since it also offers better fuel filtering than a stock Dodge fuel filter will ever be able to give you.



Kris  


2006 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 5.9L
2008 Dodge Ram 3500 QC 6.7L

 
Andrew89
User | Posts: 95 | Joined: 02/07
Posted: 10/02/08
03:49 PM

I remember reading in DP a few months agp you can run then as lean as u want...it was the issue when they talk about porting for the 6.0 powerstorke..oh i think the june issue

" in addition to atomization in a gas engine, any time you increase air flow you increase the fuel reqirments nesscary to keep a proper air/fuel mixture. the last thing you want in a gasoline engine is to run lean. "" nothing burns a piston faster than a good lean mixture, young said with a grin"" ."" in a diesel application, lean is good. the leaner you run the engine (until you put out the flame and lose compression) the cooler it runs which usually means better fuel Econmy. "  


 
BCRAM
Enthusiast | Posts: 536 | Joined: 11/06
Posted: 10/02/08
04:38 PM

The fuel pressure gauge kit that I run has fuel plumbed to a type of metering block that has a couple oz's of anti freeze in it. This way if you blow a line in the cab all you get is a bit anti freeze...rather than 20psi of diesel spaying all over you and your interior.  


2002 Dodge Ram 6 SPD Fass pump, afe cold air, mbrp 4" ss exhaust, 275hp RV injectors, edge ez, isspro gauges, South Bend clutch, track bar updated to 03-07 style, dss steering stabilizer system, 285 Cooper Discover

 
MarineOne MarineOne
User | Posts: 170 | Joined: 09/08
Posted: 10/03/08
01:29 AM

Andrew wrote:

I remember reading in DP a few months agp you can run then as lean as u want...it was the issue when they talk about porting for the 6.0 powerstorke..oh i think the june issue

" in addition to atomization in a gas engine, any time you increase air flow you increase the fuel reqirments nesscary to keep a proper air/fuel mixture. the last thing you want in a gasoline engine is to run lean. "" nothing burns a piston faster than a good lean mixture, young said with a grin"" ."" in a diesel application, lean is good. the leaner you run the engine (until you put out the flame and lose compression) the cooler it runs which usually means better fuel Econmy. "  




Heat, up to a certain degree, is a diesel engine's best friend.  Ignition of diesel by superheated air from compression is the way all diesel engines operate.  The bad part is when you run a diesel too lean or too rich;  both involves overheating and failure of both major and minor components.  Run a diesel on the lean side and you lose power, but you also lose the ability to move lots of air (remember a diesel is a giant air pump).  Run it too rich and the unburned fuel heats up EGT's and your turbo.  We all like the black smoke but not at the expense of a five thousand dollar turbo.

Gassers have the same problem, but a much narrow band between running too lean and running too rich.  Run a gasser too lean and it's kills the engine, both in power and parts.  Run it too rich and it will start "dieseling", meaning that it start to burn the gas (from heat) before the end of the compression stroke and the spark plug igniting the fuel.

IMHO, running a diesel lean doesn't necessarily improve economy.  Your injectors play a much bigger role in fuel mileage than one might believe.  Simply dumping fuel in an engine might burn, but when you completely atomize diesel the way it's supposed to be, your burn rate increases which means you get more energy from the amount of fuel you're burning.  More energy from less fuel is where you'll get better fuel economy.  This is why good injectors/injector tips and maintaining consistent, constant pressure on your fuel rail are so vital.

And technically, loss of compression in a diesel engine means something bad has happened.  Compression and heat will always be present in a diesel engine when it's spinning, its the fuel (or lack thereof) which makes the engine keep running or not.



Kris  


2006 Dodge Ram 2500 QC 5.9L
2008 Dodge Ram 3500 QC 6.7L

 
Andrew89
User | Posts: 95 | Joined: 02/07
Posted: 10/03/08
07:49 AM

I was just passing on the information I got from DP...just becasue I heard people saying that you cant run it lean..also running it lean is hotter...When actually the exact opposite is the truth. Well acording to the guy who ports the 6.0 by hand...he is the one I got the quote from..Also the more fuel the hotter the EGT's I know that..thats how you melt parts...

Also you don't need black smoke and lots of fuel to make power..but you can..run the eninge very lean..but just not so lean that you loose the detonation.  


 
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