Ad Radar
Diesel Power
Mobile Icon BtnMobile Icon Btn RO
Newsletter

05 LLY smoking black/ long crank when hot.

  
Diesel Power
Item Posts    Sort Order

05 LLY smoking black/ long crank when hot.

 
pda73 pda73
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 06/09/11
08:01 PM

I have a customer with a 05 LLY. the truck  blows excessive black smoke while in park reving it up and while under load or getting on it on the highway. the truch also has a long crank when above 180 degrees. I have replaced the fuel filter air filter. I have cleaned the maf and switched the maf out with a known good maf. Checked for cac tube leaks. Ihave checked injector balance and they are not above 1.4. I ramped the FRP to 160MPA and did find that the actuel would not go above 75MPA. I took the truck to the dealer and had the ecm ereased and reprogrammed there are no codes. I will try to smoke the CAC system tomorrow. Any other help would be great. thanks in advance to anyone with ideas.  

pda73 pda73
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 06/09/11
08:06 PM

I did forget to say the truck runs great when running,just smokes alot. Also the truck has a bully dog outlook but I disconnected it. I called bully dog and said that i felt no power difference when changing the bully dogs levels. they said that the outlook is just a monitor and you would have to have a power pup or some kind of program to have different power levels.  

Richies Truck and Auto Richies Truck and Auto
Enthusiast | Posts: 362 | Joined: 05/08
Posted: 06/14/11
08:44 AM

Hey man, what r the rail pressure values converted to psi? You say you commanded 160mpa and received only 75mpa? That would indicate the pump is either not capable of keeping up w fuel demand (not likely if stock) or not able to produce desired levels due to leak down or injector demand. If the smoke is black, Im thinking you have a broken injector nozzle(s). A broken injector would explain the difficult start when warm. Do you know the history behind the truck? Did the truck ever have a tuner/programmer or modified injectors? The outlook monitor could be used in conjunction with the power pup, yes. But, the PP is a downloader. If the tune is still present, than it could be operating and you wont know it other than the added timing/fuel. Certain tuning companies have been known to result in broken injectors when tuned rail pressures exceed certain levels. Monitor your desired and actual rail pressures, if they are not close, then your fuel loss may be due to injector issues. I wouldnt say its returning too much bc your smoking due to over fuel. Therefore, the fuel is getting to the cylinder. I would guess injector breakage from what you have described.  
Rich
05 GMC 3500HD CC/LB LLY
Fully built!
06 GMC 2500HD CC/SB LBZ:
Being built....
2011 3500HD H&S...
2013 Denali 3500HD H&S....

pda73 pda73
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 06/21/11
03:35 PM

Hey thanks for the reply. The guy bought the truck with 60k on it and it now has 165k on it. He has nver put a progrm in it that he is aware of. Also I went to the dealer and had the ECm ereased and reprogrammed because i thought that it may have a program in it. I believe it is injector issues myself. I thought if you monitored injector balance rates and they were over+4.0 then that would indicate a injector problem. It does not seem to me that the return flow test is the same on the 04.5 to 07 model as was the 01 to 04.5 models. Could it be a relief vavle and or pressure regulator. Is it easy to inspect the injectors for a broken nozzle. I called desiel services and they said they could not flow test the injectors only check pop off pressures. There has to be a test for injectors. There is no codes to indicate these problems though.  

Richies Truck and Auto Richies Truck and Auto
Enthusiast | Posts: 362 | Joined: 05/08
Posted: 06/22/11
11:55 AM

First thing, there clearly was a misunderstanding when the testing of the injectors question was either asked or interpreted by the diesel service people. The pop test is something performed on a "mechanical" engine like the 12V/24V Cummins. The CR Bosch injectors can absolutely be tested, I have this done every once in a while through my shop. The solenoids and the injector pintle/seats/nozzles all get tested for integrity, flow, wear and spray patterns. A crack can be VERY difficult to see depending where it occurs. If its in the body, its almost impossible to see without extreme care and if its in the nozzle you should be able to see it with some searching. As far as return rates, Im almost positive they are not the same. I cannot accurately quote the values, but they should be different from RPO model to the next, as the flow rates have changed substantially. You can simply disconnect a return line and measure the amount returned within a certain amount of seconds. This ofcourse is performed with FICM disconnected. I think its 8ml within 30 seconds of cranking??? If your checking balance rates, from my experience anything above 3.8-+4.0 (neutral)or close to 6.0 when in park (IIRC)is going to result in trouble in the near future. Im not 100% on which  park/neutral status, but I know the values are correct. If you want to check the FCA or fuel control actuator on the CP3, just disconnect it and max rail psi will result by default. I dont believe you have a relief pressure valve concern b/c you have too much fuel entering cylinders as it is. The rail psi has to be elevated for another reason if the fault has to do with the rail.  
Rich
05 GMC 3500HD CC/LB LLY
Fully built!
06 GMC 2500HD CC/SB LBZ:
Being built....
2011 3500HD H&S...
2013 Denali 3500HD H&S....

pda73 pda73
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 06/28/11
01:59 PM

Thanks rich. I called central motive power in denver and did get a better responce. they had 4 tests to test the injectors. I got the customer back in and removed all eight injectors. Sending them off today. I wiil post thhe findings probably next week when i know. When i pulled #1 injector it was wet and just sitting on the bench it looked to be leaking. We will see. Thanks for the reply.  

pda73 pda73
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 07/04/11
01:28 PM

So I just wanted to update this post. I got the results back frome central motive power and 2 of the injectors failed the first leakage test and could not even be tested any further. The other 6 injectors failed the pilot injection and the high load injection for over fueling. I ordered 8 new injectors and will be putting them in the vehicle next week.  

pda73 pda73
New User | Posts: 9 | Joined: 06/11
Posted: 07/22/11
02:10 PM

I got the injectors in and they did repair the vehicle. Test drove no more black smoke and starts great even when hot. Rechecked my FRP pid and now I can ramp the MPA up to 160 and the actual follows. Thanks for the help rich.  

BlackPearl07 BlackPearl07
New User | Posts: 15 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 07/24/11
05:41 AM

Nice job Rich, Its great to get honest info.
__________________  
USMC Vet 1994-2002,  2007 Classic LBZ, TS Performance MP8, Fingerstick,EGR Blocked, Alligator Performance PCV reroute.  AFE stage II intake,MBRP intercooler pipes,MBRP turbo outlet down pipe, MBRP 4" exhaust, BD manifold,fuel rail shim kit, Trans Go jr shift kit, Alligator Performance Tranny Cooler line kit, Cognito upper a arms, and bracing, Bilstien shocks, Alligator Performance Tie Rod Sleeves, Hadley Bully Train Horn, Diamo 8  20x9 285-50-20 Nitto Terra Grapplers.